The Heathen Worldview

[Bathilde]

How would you describe the heathen worldview? How does it compare to the worldview of the average person in today's society?

[Aelfgar]

The focus on this world, and not the other worldliness that the Abrahamic and Eastern religions focus on, is for me a important part of the heathen world view.

[Bathilde]

Indeed, I agree wholeheartedly. Heathenry is definitely not a death cult.

[JeffSinger]

Yet at the same time death is very central. Honor in death, pride in death, qaulity of death, cause of death are all very important to the whole view. The gods travel into the lands of the dead, we worship the dead, in particular the disir. Generally (exception were made) the kind of death you receive determines your fate after death.

I belive the world view has a lot to do with death. Not being afraid to set sail or venture into a cave or go to war because death was inevitable, and therefore not something to fear. The Norns set our fates, therefore death defying things shouldn't be feared because our fate is fixed, when you die you die and nothing can be done about it. I think that heathenism (especially heathenism in ancient times) could be seen as a religion where death played a huge role in the world view.

Off the topic of death: I think the heathen world view is one unlike many others. The HWV centers less on serving gods and more about emulating gods, to fit there example. We don't follow blindly and serve unwillingly. We question the world and the gods unlinke the big 3. We accept all things as interconnected and reliant on one another, nature is essentially one, where as other religions see nature and man as seperate and all beings other than man as subservient. We belive in fixing mistakes rather than atoning. HWV sees men and woman as equal, each sex playing its role. Heathens belive charity is good but that working is better. All in all I'd say HWV is about honor, doing what's right, accepting nature as one force that all things are inter connected. That death isn't to be feared, and that we shouldn't live life worrying about what the next day will bring, because we cannot change the future, what will happen is what will happen, though you can take steps to insure a happy life for yourself.

I end here abrubtly, I'm tired and if I don't come across clearly or am redundant forgive me

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[Bathilde]

Nope, I'm gonna have to disagree there. death is most certainly not central. I think the focus is more on quality of life and how you've lived(since your reputation lives on). I don't see how the cause of death is of any concern. I don't worship the dead, I honor the spirits and memory of my ancestors who've died.

I also disagree that our fates are fixed.

[Aelfgar]

I think the concept of having one's fate fixed sounds a bit too much like predestination, I have always been under the understanding that one creates their fate through their actions, thus not fixed.

[JeffSinger]

What I meen by fixed fate is not that every. second is determined but that death is inevitable, when u die u die and that's it, it could happen tommorow and that's why fear of death shouldn't be an issue.

Death is a major part of Heathen religion. Freyja and Odin were gods of death (two death gods would certainly point to the idea of death as important to the WV, the ancients faced death at every turn in the form of diesease accedents ect, it was a daily and commom occurence, if that was the case how could death not have been huge? To meet death with a jest on your lips and without fear was a major social idea in the old world, because it lurked at every turn, to have feared death then would have been a problem, because it laid around each bend in the river.) If death wasn't a central theme than what about the great hunt? A major part of the old ways. Why was sacrifice practiced? Battle and rough and tough survival were in the forefront of the ancestors mind, both result in death if failure is to be had.

The cause of death was THEE concern in regards to where your afterlife would be. Half of those who fall in battle go to Valhalla, the other half to Folkvangr (also a place for people who knew true love in life). Dying of old age and accedents got you into Hel (Not always a bad thing, Hell to us is different than the christian Hell. Ours has domains of both suffering and non suffering, not everyone who goes into Hellas domain is punished. It is said that dependending on your life style and honor Hella could either be evil and hideouse to look upon or beutiful and loving.) The cause of your death was 100 percent of concern, primary concern. In the modern world I view the afterlife destination as a metaphor for who you were. Those who die corageously or for others go to Valhalla (they are remembered as heros) those who go to Folkvang were kind people, family people. Those who go to Hell were average people who didn't make much of a mark (or were evil where they are chewed on by Nidhogg).

Your after life and your name being remembered are two different things. A warrior can go to Valhalla and not be remembered by history (I cannot name every warrior who fell against Olaf) your name and reputation don't determine your afterlife, the determine the immortality of your legend and your example.

Heathens do "worship" the dead. Its like a MAJOR part of it. You don't become and ancestor or a spirit until your dead, you can't be a Dis until you are dead, we respect and honor those who have passed and that is central (more than one thing can be central).

There is no academic doubt death was MAJOR part of ancient heathenism and modern heathenism may be different, religions change, but I keep the idea of death close to my belifes as did the ancestors, because tommorow I can get in a car wreck, I want to understand death, and welcome death when it comes, without fear, unlike others who do whatever they can to deny death.

On top of all that the dead play a major part of the lore, you almost can't turn a page without finding some dead SOB being raised or someone dying.

In the 13th warrior Herger the Joyus tells Ibn Fadhlan, "Hurry to meet death before your place is taken."

This was an actual saying.

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[JeffSinger]

http://northvegr.org/secondary%20source ... index.html

http://northvegr.org/secondary%20source ... n/022.html

[Bathilde]

I'm not positive that when people die they go to the halls of the gods. I suspect it's poetic license. More than likely I would think the barrow-mound is the final destination of the dead.

I think you are focusing on the death aspect whilst most heathens in my experience don't. It would seem it's a matter of preference. The subject of death rarely comes up, in fact. I don't think about death, nor do I plan for it. Nor do I care when I die. I prefer focusing on life and what I do in this life.


We respect and honor those who've lived as well by the way. and I don't consider the wights and gods to be dead, which is 2/3 of what is usually being worshipped(although I've noticed most heathens focus on the honoring the gods above others). And I do not believe we honor the dead because they're dead. We honor our dead ancestors because they lived and affected our lives, just as we'll affect the lives of our descendants.

Death is merely a fact of life, and isn't the focus of my belief system.

[JeffSinger]

The cause of death was THEE concern in regards to where your afterlife would be. Half of those who fall in battle go to Valhalla, the other half to Folkvangr (also a place for people who knew true love in life). Dying of old age and accedents got you into Hel (Not always a bad thing, Hell to us is different than the christian Hell. Ours has domains of both suffering and non suffering, not everyone who goes into Hellas domain is punished. It is said that dependending on your life style and honor Hella could either be evil and hideouse to look upon or beutiful and loving.) The cause of your death was 100 percent of concern, primary concern. In the modern world I view the afterlife destination as a metaphor for who you were. Those who die corageously or for others go to Valhalla (they are remembered as heros) those who go to Folkvang were kind people, family people. Those who go to Hell were average people who didn't make much of a mark (or were evil where they are chewed on by Nidhogg).

Personification, not literal

I dont focus on death i just accept its an extremely huge part of life and the ancestors world view.

Right you dont honor ancestors because they are dead, but you dont honor them until after they have died. The Ancestors prepared for their deaths and accepted death and contemplated it often. Now in a world thats more or less safer the idea of death may have taken a back seat, but if life is to be honored then so must death. Death isnt really a negative thing